On this week's episode of Inside Outside Innovation, we sit down with Jeremy Kourdi and Jonathan Besser, authors of the new book, 50 Ideas that Changed the World of Work. From the Growth Mindset to Business Model Canvas, we delve into their guidebook for some of the key concepts, models, and frameworks that are shaping business leadership and workplace dynamics. Let's get started. 

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[00:00:50]  Brian Ardinger: Welcome to another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. I'm your host, Brian Ardinger, and as always, we have some amazing guests. Today we have Jeremy Kourdi and Jonathan Besser, authors of the new book, 50 Ideas That Change the World of Work. Welcome guys. 

[00:01:02] Jeremy Kourdi: Hi, Brian. 

[00:01:03] Brian Ardinger: I'm excited to have you guys on because the title alone got me intrigued to reach out to you the 50 Ideas that Changed the World of Work. And when I got a copy of it, it, it did open my eyes to all the amazing work that has gone on over the years talking about innovation and workplace dynamics, and leadership. And you've decided to take on the amazing work of like, how do you tackle this mass body of work that all these other people have put together and put it into a book of your own.

[00:01:31] Jeremy Kourdi: The first thing is to do it with someone. You'll know this, Brian, you'll certainly appreciate it. That life leadership business, certainly innovation is easier if you have someone that you understand, that you know, that you respect, crucially, that you have a great connection with. I always say one of the great things about rapport and connection is that that then means you can disagree, you can challenge, you can push back. And the other person that you are challenging or disagree with knows you're on their site, knows where you're coming from and appreciates that. 

[00:02:04] Jonathan Besser: I mean, you know, Jeremy and I have known each other for a number of years. We've worked together, we've collaborated, we've disagreed agreeably, we've argued along the way. But yeah, hopefully 50 Ideas is is the output from that discussion, from that partnership, from working together and I think is a different angle that people will enjoy and use. It'll stand the test of time. 

[00:02:24] Brian Ardinger: What I liked about it is, again, you talk about emotional intelligence, growth mindset, blue ocean strategy, SWOT analysis, business model canvas. I mean, the list is, is again, 50 plus, first of all, to pull that together, how did you decide which particular ideas were the ones most worthy of going into a book and, and what was the process of pulling that together?

[00:02:45] Jonathan Besser: There was kind of a mental all wrestle as you went through. You know, I think Jer and I started with, with a, a long list. And yeah, with the help of our publisher and long discussions between the two of us, we whittled it down to what we thought stood the test of time. You know, what do people want to hear and what would be useful to people from, you know, Sun Tzu's Art Of War, which is centuries old, right through to some of the more modern concepts like Lean In. Samberg's Lead In is very, you really very new.

And the the pieces that come in between. That help you understand the, the intention is to give people perhaps the reference book and as a first starting point. You know, the book can be one that is, you can dip into, you know, I just heard about NBTI, let me go into, yeah, to have a look at that chapter, this great reference book, to also the book that feeds through from the 50 different chapters coming through that builds upon concept and idea and references back to itself as it goes along.

It was a collaboration of what we both thought. And you know, Jeremy and I have known each other a long time. We've worked well together over all those years, and it was really the way that it came together. We had a lot of synergy and not too much disagreement. 

[00:03:48] Jeremy Kourdi: The themes we have, I think, are absolutely on the mark, and they, you know, as Jonathan alluded to, as you alluded to Brian, they come out really strongly. And what really interested me was some of those themes. So, you see the rise, particularly over the last 30 years of psychology. Business and leadership. So really not just understanding your customers, which used to be the thing in the eighties and nineties perhaps, but currently it's getting to a level of customer understanding, empathy, customer experience, is the new frontier there.

Getting to a level of that insight really, that's really valuable. So, psychology, and not just relating to customers, but for decision making, neuroscience, coaching, something like growth mindset. So, psychology is a theme that goes through it. And balance with that is rigor and the use of data, particularly whether that's in things like assessment tools for promotion and succession, or career development, or again for innovation. You know, what is our data telling us and have we got the balance right between art and science, between intuition and data? And that's another theme that kind of comes up. 

[00:04:56] Brian Ardinger: What I liked about it, it brings together both classical models and, and modern innovations like you talked about. It reminded me of things that, you know, oh yeah, I studied that back when I got my MBA decades ago. But it was still relevant today, but I hadn't looked at that. Or thought about that particular model in a while. And so, I think... 

[00:05:12] Jeremy Kourdi: Interesting that there's a new context. So, if it's not a new idea, then it's certainly deserving of a new context. So, something like looking after customers is not new. I think frankly, as I sit here in the Uk, that issue needs to come again. You know, the. Service we get from our financial services organizations, maybe globally, certainly in the UK from banks, insurers is, you know, was better in the past than it is now. I think they've kind of been out flanked by technology or the need to drive down costs or shareholder value. Other issues which have changed the world of work, but then they've kind of not adapted customer experience and customer focus to the new context and to take banking as an example, I think there's more that can be done there. So new ideas, but as you say, Brian, kind of perennial ideas in a new context. 

[00:06:04] Brian Ardinger: Some of the ideas maybe have been overlooked and deserve to come back to be at least studied again, and that. Are there particular ideas within the book that you think are more relevant in the disruptive times we're living in today?

[00:06:16] Jonathan Besser: I think they all have relevance. I think there are different pieces. You know, we, we are working in a smaller, faster, quicker, narrower frame with the world the way it's changing with geopolitics, with all the elements that are feeding into it. We got news that's you know, that's appearing on the second.

We have a computer in our pocket that sometimes makes phone calls that is constantly keeping us updated or distracted for where we are. I think they all have relevance to where we are, and equally there is a factor of personalization. Whether it be understanding yourself through neurodiversity or understanding what makes you take in different ways of working, you have to personalize your approach and relevance to what it is. That's a very broad spectrum read every 50 chapters answer, but I think they're all relevant in what we do. 

[00:07:00] Jeremy Kourdi: It's a personal thing, isn't it? For me, it, I was amazed, frankly, that Lean In took us long as it did to be published. And to become an issue of significance. And when I kind of looked at the book and the work and the concept and I thought, man, where was that 40 years ago or longer? Where was that for my mother? All the marginalized groups that we've seen in the workplace, frankly, for far too long. And I, I was glad to include it. And I was really surprised that frankly, the world of work hadn't gotten itself together. 

And I'm not saying that even today it's gotten itself together. I think there's much more that's done needs to be done, but there's certainly more awareness of that issue than there was before. And that's long overdue for sure. 

But the other idea that for me underpins a lot of. So, thinking about, to your point, Brian, about innovation is Carol Dweck's Growth Mindset really do, whether it's disruptive innovation, whether it's particular techniques you're using, or Blue Ocean strategy or whatever aspect of innovation, is it about in innovating products, is it about processes? Is it about business models? That kind of positive forward-thinking approach I think is really, really valuable. 

And I see around me too much individuals in organizations being reactive and kind of getting beaten up by events a little bit. And I can understand that because they're unfamiliar and they're scary. They're things like, you know. Big competitors or global pandemics or economic and political policies that we haven't seen in a hundred years. There is all manner of unfamiliar things arising and scaring people, and I think the ability to have a growth mindset. To think, okay, in all this, there has to be opportunity, and I am going to take control and I'm going to try and find a way through this.

It's interesting. It's stimulating, it's rewarding. Frankly. It's the only game in town. And I, I always say that the best way to predict the future is to create it. And I think that speaks to the kind of proactivity in something like Dweck's Growth Mindset.

[00:09:09] Jonathan Besser: What I'd add on, on top of what Jeremy said, is that there's a piece about the personal discovery and personal shift that takes you along the journey of bunkers as the world gets faster, as it continues to evolve in where we are and what we're doing.

There's a journey of self-discovery. There's a, there's the generation WIFI, as I like to call them, you know, they, they don't know the world without the internet or the computer in your pocket that makes the phone call. And allows you for that self-discovery, which is where you can bring pockets in from radical candid to emotional intelligence to grow as coaching model, all the other elements that feed in to innovation, to self-discovery.

[00:09:45] Brian Ardinger: You know, you talk about. Things like psychological safety and emotional intelligence. Some of these kind of softer skills, but unlike a lot of business books that focus on either one side or the other, like soft skills or hard skills, and you know, other books like Business Model Canvas is probably more tactical in nature.

You kind of combine them both and given the reader an opportunity to see the holistic approach that you really need in business and how to understand and, and navigate it. And, and then again, look at proven frameworks to understand what's the next thing they need to be doing. 

[00:10:14] Jonathan Besser: And you can't live one without the other really. I mean, I think we've seen that in day in, day out and what we're doing. We're feeling it. We are living it. And, and certainly that's our perspective, which is why we approached it with the way we did. 

[00:10:26] Jeremy Kourdi: Do you have favorites? For me, I love Growth Mindset. As I mentioned, you just touched on the Grow model and what I like about John Whitmore's Grow Model is its goal oriented and there's an outcome.

There's a, an impact, a result at the end of it. So, whether you are coaching others, whether you are frankly coaching yourself or whether you are just thinking through an issue, what's the goal here? What's the reality? What's the options? What's the way forward? Have I got the will? When is it going to happen?

All those Ws at the end, that speaks to me. So, grow for sure. Growth Mindset, I love, I do like the practical tactical tools. I mean, Osterwalder's Business Model Canvas, a business plan on a page comprehensively everything you need, all the ingredients on one page. And I, and I think that's quite something as well, really. So, coming back to a point. You've touched on earlier. I just love the blend of the ideas, your point about hard and soft. What I came to realize as we were writing the book was actually if you blend something like the Business Model Canvas with the need to sell and influence and build those close associative relationships with resellers, for example.

Or you need to really put yourself in the shoes of those customers on that side and Osterwalder highlights, you know, customers and resellers and roots to market in a kind of cold, dispassionate way. But if you add to that, some of the soft skills, well, how strong are our relationships with our resellers? Have I even asked them what they think of the product, what they think might come next?

Heck, they're closer to the market than I am. Maybe a conversation with them is important or a relationship where they feel they can come to me and say, do you know what? This is what we're hearing. So, if you blend the, the harder traditional aspects with the soft, I mean, another example would be shareholder value, which I always thought of as a really, you know, an accountant issue or a CFO's issue.

But then if you are a manager or a leader and you start thinking if. Like a shareholder, start making decisions. Encourage your team to make decisions like it's your money, like you're a shareholder. Then that blend of something like shareholder value and team development, let's say, that can be really potent as well. So, for me, there's a lot there about the combination, I think. 

[00:12:48] Brian Ardinger: How did you narrow it down and get it to be so succinct and actionable? 50 books and in one book. 

[00:12:56] Jonathan Besser: The truth is, Brian, we probably offended people along the way by missing elements out for which we apologize. And yeah, the intention is that you cover 50 concepts, 50 ideas within a single book, and it can't be a book of thousands of pages. So we, we followed a very simple structure really, to try and make it manageable and navigable, you know, whereby you start with each concept about what is the big picture, what's the idea as you go through, and then go straight into about the idea that's the, the header for, for where it is, what we're doing. You know then moving really into what in practice, what do you do to apply it? How do you take it? And then, you know, what are you going to do? What's next? How can you read it? Where do you need to go? What's a couple of ideas of what you can follow and where you're going. What do you need to think about? How do you apply it? How do you take it into your organization? 

[00:13:40] Jeremy Kourdi: How can I take my arms around this really important but difficult concept and thought starters? Yeah. 

[00:13:44] Jonathan Besser: How can you apply it, you know, to make it really deeply practicable, manage practical, manageable, and useful to people? 

[00:13:52] Jeremy Kourdi: Jonathan and I both grew up, I think over the last 20 or so years, our formative experiences were in business, executive education, executive development. And the big shift I think that we've seen certainly this century has been, it needs to be practical. Academic theory, which maybe was the thing that business schools were selling for a long time in, in the seventies and eighties, and where they came from and all of that rigor, which is important, but it does need to have a practical payoff.

[00:14:24] Jonathan Besser: All the evidence says you've got to apply concepts. You've got to be able to take it into your concept, into your practice, your day, to your team, your bosses, your peers. How can you apply it and make it work to actually have an effect? Because this is about creating long-term, sustained change, which would be for yourself, your team, your peers, your organization, your shareholders, or whoever. 

And that applies to the personal side as well. You know, I mean, talked about direct growth mindset. I was delighted when I saw Growth Mindset 10 years ago being applied in a business concept. You know, as I was a fair, my wife and I were fairly new parents and applying it in a, in our growing children who are now horrible teenagers. It was wonderful to, to see it in the business concept because it's so practical, both personally and professionally, as a way to develop and grow. You know, this is a concept that's been around for a long time. 

[00:15:09] Jeremy Kourdi: For me at least, the hardest thing was writing those short thought, starting questions. So, we're taking a concept and I was mindful and feeling the pressure of the reader and they can be not of my culture or in a completely different part of the world, a completely different industry context time even.

And yet, I wanted them to be able, we wanted them to be able to use and apply and engage with this topic. So what questions, what 5 or 6 questions could we ask them that would help them translate the concept? To their context, coming up with five or six questions to do that is really, I can write a whole book quicker than I can come up with those, those questions because it was tough. 

[00:15:52] Jonathan Besser: And it was tough, and it needed several edits and work throughs and you know it's also relevant thought starters, the questions that are equally relevant to your brand new graduate who's joining an organization through to board member CPO/CEO and everyone in between. How can it be relevant to people creating a common language? 

[00:16:11] Brian Ardinger: Imagine one of the challenges with the, the amount of ideas and that, trying to understand any advice you have for leaders who felt overwhelmed with the competing models and the different frameworks that you've presented. Is there a particular way they should start to digest the book or get their mind around the, the different frameworks and such? 

[00:16:26] Jeremy Kourdi: So, what I recommend, if you've just bought the book, have a skim through. See what's there and see what speaks to you. Whatever resonates with you from the 50, maybe have a look at those and then put it on the shelf.

Maybe having mind one or two things that you want to take forward. That might be the way to start. And then as things progress, if you are struggling with the need to innovate or to develop the team or to give feedback or whatever, whatever the challenge happens to be, then have a look. There'll probably be something in 50 ideas to help you unblock your thinking.

And to your wider question, Brian, about generally, how should leaders engage with the ideas? I think it's about focus, isn't it? I'll come back to John Whitmore's Grow Model. What's the goal? So don't try to bottle the ocean, if you're a senior exec or if you've just not a senior exec, but you've got a lot on your plate, break it down into manageable, achievable goals. You know, the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. What is that single step? What am I trying to achieve here? It's easier to move towards something positive than away from a negative. So, what's that exciting motivational thing you're trying to achieve? And hopefully there'll be ideas, questions, or, or a tool or two to help you in the book. So, I use it that way.

[00:17:44] Brian Ardinger: That's a great segue to the last question. You know, looking ahead, are there any emerging ideas or trends that you think will become the 51st idea or the start for your next chapter to the next book?

[00:17:55] Jonathan Besser: What gives me the greatest curiosity maybe is with the world changing so fast within geopolitics globally, around where we are, what's evolving, what's coming out, that that is rocking to the top of a, of the next list for where we are. That's part, we've set up a dedicated LinkedIn community page to really garner some thoughts and start thought leadership on that. What's the discussion point? What are people seeing? What are, you know, what are our, what are readers current and future wanting to learn about? Because we, we are two individuals with some thoughts. 

[00:18:28] Jeremy Kourdi: I would encourage people to share their ideas and their experience and not be afraid to codify it.

I mean, it does occur to me that there are lots of things, lots of compelling ideas, so to take a couple Growth Mindset and Lean in that have really caught fire this century. Really. I mean, in the last 20 years they, they may have had antecedents a little bit before that for sure, but it's only really in the last 10 or 20 years ideas as profound and important as those have taken off. So, the 51st idea, I hope is being piloted, is changing workplaces even as we speak. 

There's a slight irony here because one of the ideas that Jonathan and I really value is ambidextrous thinking. This is the idea that you have to exploit your business model and your success today, but that can't be all you do.

You have to balance that, whether it's your career, whether it's your team's success, whether it's the organization's direction, whatever it is. Focus today has to be balanced with an exploration of the future. So, we call it exploiting today and exploring future, exploring its flight. That kind of ambidextrous thinking is really, really important.

So, if there's one meta idea, it would be, it would be that. So, we've got 50 ideas that are great that will support you, turbocharge your career, support your organization, all those things. But that's not it. You know, things move on. Man, there'd better be a second edition of this book. 

[00:19:59] Jonathan Besser: If you're thinking about an in innovative mindset, you know, you can always have a growth mindset hand in hand with Amex, the ambidexterity. Maybe, you know, coupled together with a situational issue. because that's where your mindset's going to go. It's about how you've got to to navigate forward in the world. I mean, it's difficult to link it all down. 

[00:20:17] Brian Ardinger: Well, it's a great opportunity. Encourage everybody to grab a copy of the book to get their mind thinking about both old and new ideas and then how to apply that moving forward. Thank you both for being on Inside Outside Innovation. What's the best way for them to connect with you or, or find out more about the book or, or more about yourselves? 

[00:20:33] Jonathan Besser: So, we've got a dedicated website with our contact details on it's 50Ideas.World is the website, or we got the LinkedIn community page as well. We'd love to hear from people, hear views, hear thoughts, hear what's missing, as well as feedback. 

[00:20:46] Brian Ardinger: Excellent. Well, Jeremy and Jonathan, thanks again for being on the show and look forward to the next 50 plus ideas. 

[00:20:52] Jeremy Kourdi: Real pleasure, Brian. Thank you for having us. Thank you. 

[00:20:55] Brian Ardinger: Thank you. That's it for another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. If you want to learn more about our team, our content, our services, check out InsideOutside.io or follow us on Twitter @theIOpodcast or @Ardinger. Until next time, go out and innovate.

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